Busted NRS patch

[jeremy089786]

So, after a hundred or so rolls, my NRS patch has well and truly died (pics through link). Instead of the patch peeling off the material ripped apart. The other upper patch is also well on its way to destruction while the bottom two are completely untouched.

http://hiking26.blogspot.com.au/2012/08 ... patch.html

From this, I would say that these patches are fine for the odd roll, potentially overkill for bottom patches and inadequate for longer term rolling.

Has anyone else had this happen? Also, has anyone got experience with the 2" NRS patches? I figure they may have a greater attachment to the patch?

Finally, does anyone have any suggestions on how to get these patches off? I attached them in the manner of Luc Mehl (thanks Luc your a legend) which appears to work super well.

All the best,
Jeremy.

[Kirkinbend]

If you can get away with it you may want to patch over the old d-ring with a new one, its not holding air and you may do more harm than good by trying to remove it if the bond is strong. I would not normally say patch over a patch but packraft rubber is not the strongest stuff ever made. You may just want to try and remove the outside second layer on the patch and leave the inner one attached to your raft.
To remove:
If you used Stay-bond glue, or the PVC clifton equivalent, use M.E.K. as a solvent for the glue. I assume you also used M.E.K. to etch the boat and patch to accept the glue, the same stuff is also the solvent for the glue. But be very carefull, M.E.K. is not only a carcinogen that flows directly through your skin and into your blood stream (use gloves and check them for holes regularly. M.E.K. eats rubber gloves also) it will also eat the rubber on your packraft if you use too much or soak it for to long. Apply a little bit, with a Q-tip or small brush and have a rag to catch the extra runoff, and start working the glue bond by slowly separating it. Every time you get it a little bit apart it may be necessary to apply a little more M.E.K. Be careful the patch/ is thicker than your boat and you do not want to rip your boat or eat all the rubber away.

This removal technique is from my experience working with larger commercial PVC whitewater rafts. I have glued a fare amount of patches and d-rings to a few packrafts but have not tried to remove any of them. If someone else has come up with a better solvent or technique please speak up I`d love to hear about it.

P.S. As far as the NRS patch goes I have never owned a single NRS item that did not fall apart, shoes, patches, dry-bags, boats ext. Bad quality made in china. Get a Aire or Maravia D-ring they are made and stitched superior to anything made by NRS.

[jeremy089786]

Hi Kirkinbend,

Thanks so much for your detailed response. Indeed it does sound like my best bet would be to cut the top layer off the original patches (thus avoiding cancer) and replace with something like an Aire D-ring. Have you had much experience with these ones?

All the best,

Jeremy.

[Kirkinbend]

I only own one Aire raft, it`s an IK with no d-rings on it, but I will say I have a few friends with Aire rafts and I have never seen a Aire d-ring fail on there`s or anyone else s boat. I went with a similar d-ring on my packraft to the NRS you had fail, probably the same manufacturer, different distributor, I hope I do not have the same problem. I thought it was kinda weak looking when I got it but glued it on anyway (to anxious to us use the thigh straps I guess) . Its been fine so far but sooner or later I will probably have the same issue.
good luck with your repair!
Kirk

[waluyo]

Have you thought about using a heatgun (lower temperature available) to remove the patch?
The idea would be to have enough heat to melt the glue, but too little to make any structural dammage to the fabric... (might need to protect the raft fabric around the patch with thick towels or plywood)

I am not sure in which extend this would work, especially with the super glues you are using. But I think I might give it a try ('have the same issue here, althought I think that in my case, the patch might peal off before the material would break).

I used this process to remove a broken tip of my hiking pole, and was really impressed by how well this worked...

I will think over this in the next days. Any thought about this is welcome (before I make an irreparable mistake )

[jeremy089786]

Hi Waluyo,

Thanks for the post, that is a great idea that I will try out in a couple of weeks when my new patches arrive (I am going to test out 3 different patches -2 NRS and 1 AIRE). I tried MEK on the weekend and didn't have alot of success (I was a bit frightened of the cancer everyone talks of here), so heat is probably my best bet. I also got round to cutting off the top layer of urethane to reveal just how thoroughly destroyed the patches are (pics on blog).

What kind of patch are you using?

All the best,

Jeremy.

[waluyo]

I have been using Alpackraft tie downs, with poor glue (Bison Liquid rubber http://www.bison.net/en/products/645-ho ... id-rubber/ which can be assimilated somewhat to aquaseal).
One patch (Right hip) pealed off after a few roll sessions. The other one is well on its way...

I have just ordered 2 NRS 1' patches (they arrived yesterday).
I want to remove the remaining Alpackraft tie down located on the left hip, and apply the 2 NRS patches.
I will probably use the same glue, and if after a while, I encounter the same issue, I will start my hunt for better glue...

I do not have much experience. So I can't really bring any valuable input on what, patch is best.
sorry!

[Kirkinbend]

Hey Waluyo
when you start your hunt for good glue to use on your packraft here are a few choices: Staybond, Clifton, Vinylbond.
Aquaseal is not meant to be used for anything structural like a d-ring, it sticks to the fabric but does not molecularly bond the fabrics. Good for pinholes or small seam repairs but there are better glues for urethane (PVC).
Staybond two part PVC glue and Clifton two part PVC glue are the best for PVC especially if it is something structural (d-rings or big patches) if you follow the instructions...
1. clean old glue off (gluing over a weak bond only makes another weak bond)
2. prep (sand thoroughly )
3. clean off remnants/dust from sanding
4. etch (with M.E.K.,very lightly brushed on, preps the fabric to accept the glue also the solvent for the PVC glue) air dry,
5. etch air dry
6. glue air dry (very lightly, no bug globs or heavy brush strokes just a smooth thin layer)
7. glue air dry
8. glue air dry
9. heat both surfaces (90-96deg hair dryer or heat gun on low heat)
10. stick pacth on , roll or rub material to make sure no air bubbles.
All steps must be done to both the raft and patch material, Skip a step and the glue is sure to fail.
Clifton also makes a one part urethane PVC glue but I do not believe it is as strong as the two part but easy to work with and no mixing. There is also Vinylbond, also good for pinholes and small patches or seams, similar to aquaseal but works better on vinyl, urethane (PVC)

[waluyo]

Hi Kirkinbend!

Unfortunately, I am living in Finland, and do not have access to the glues you mentionned.

But I have seen that in the Packrafting-store.de: http://www.packrafting-store.de/Extras/ ... ::169.html
Just wondering how much better it is compared to the Bison rubber liquid I have been using.

@Sven, (if you are passing by):
Have you had the chance to compare Helaplast with Staybond, Clifton, Vinylbond... ?